You've heard it said "If its meant to be it will be". Is that so?
Try to discuss this in terms of free will vs. determinism - and relate that to the four philosophical systems we have looked at in chapter two: Stoicism, Existentialism, Hedonism, Buddhism.
I don't believe that it is true because it will always depend on the decisions that you make in your life. These choices can create many different outcomes which may impact a life in a positive or negative way. If you know that it will end up one way you are most likely going to choose the path that leads you to that end. This is an existentialist way of looking at it because choices are what existentialism is all about. Hedonism will choose a path that is based on pleasure and therefore may discount any paths that have pain which may according to Stoics be the path that was meant to be, The stoics would find this statement to be completely true. They believe in fate and having everything already pre-arranged for a person. The buddhists will find that karma may cause this to become true. If a person has negative karma that person may not be able to witness this outcome.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion, I would have to agree with the quote. I have always believed that if something happened that was out of the ordinary it was supposed to happen in order to make life better. The Stoic philosopher would agree with my opinion mainly because the stoics believed that everything is planned out in our lives. A "meaningful coincidence" as they would say. An existentialist, however, would go completely against my opinion. Those types of philosophers believe that we create our purpose. The theistic philosopher would believe that God brought us into this world and from there we create whatever it is we want our lives to be. The atheistic philosopher would like to think that we are just simply here and we are free to create and live our lives however we feel it should be. The Hedonist type of philosopher, on the other hand, would agree with my opinion in a way. A hedonist would believe if we follow our pleasures without guilt, then we will find our true purpose in life. Basically if our natural desires lead us to what is meant to be, then it will be. Yet, a Buddhist, would believe that a disciplined lifestyle is necessary in order to keep life in balance. With that being said, a Buddhist would disagree with my opinion that everything happens for a reason mainly because they feel that suffering and enlightenment creates good and bad karma and life isn't really planned out in order to make things "meant to be."
ReplyDeleteThe saying above applies differently to every person who has different beliefs, for example a stoic would take this saying as it is their fate for what is happening to them. They believe fate pre-decides everything for them and if something is not meant to be then fate decided that for them. An existentialist, however, would say they chose this situation and the outcome arrived only because they chose to take that path in their life. They do not believe some greater being pre-decided their decision since they are not a puppet being control by a puppeteer. Yet, a hendonist could argue they only chose what they chose because their outcome had a greater pleasure than the other. They decide based on what outcome has the greatest amount of pleasure for them, or which out would cause the least amount of pain in their life for the long run. A buddhist, though, would conclude whatever choice caused less suffering would be the best choice. Also if it were really meant to be, a buddhist would not wait around for the outcome to affect them but they would try to make the effect occur. They strongly believe in karma and if the path they choose lead to a good outcome they would most likely choose it because they want good to happen to them, unless the buddhist would rather have something bad happen to them then they would chose to go down the bad path.
ReplyDeleteI believe this saying means exactly what it's saying. If something is meant to be then it will happen. It's almost like playing with magnets, no matter how hard a person tries to put the opposite ends together they will not attract to each other. Whether if fate chooses the outcome or the person does, does not really matter because if it really were meant to be it would happen. No matter how much a person tries to travel down a path that was not meant to be, they would never arrive to the end of that path because too many variables would be pulling them off the path onto a new one. No one would know if fate was behind the reasoning or if it was the person who decided, because no one knows really what they are suppose to do while they travel through life, maybe the outcome was always there waiting but the person had to make different decisions and travel different paths to arrive at their true destination. People do not know the unknown because that is what it is, the unknown. They might not have chosen to do the right thing to do in the past which took them on different paths, but that's the funny thing about life, so many roads intertwine with each other taking people from on situation to another, running into long lost friends or leaving old friends to better that person's life. The unknown is full of mystery and how we chose to look at our destiny is up to us, but we are all playing the game of life and if something was meant to be than it will be.
Everyone sees this statement differently, depending on his/her own personal philosophy. For example, the Stoic would think if it meant to be, fate and God will ensure that it will happen. The Existentialist believes if it is meant to happen, you have to put forth effort to make it happen. The Hedonist may turn away from "it" if "it" causes pain. The Buddhist will do anything and everything to obtain "it" through karma.
ReplyDeleteI personally think all of these are true to some degree. I believe it starts with determinism. If a person's main goal in life is to be rich and travel the world, he/she cannot do so if he/she was born into a poor family who cannot afford to send him/her to school. This was pre-determined; he/she had no control. But, with enough free-will, one could potentially break away from what was pre-determined. If the person worked diligently to afford schooling then graduated from high school and college with a degree and obtained a high-paying occupation, then he/she can achieve his/her goal. I believe in both of these concepts. Much of what happens to you comes from free-will, but sometimes factors such as being in the right place at the right time can play a major roll as well. I do believe, however, free-will has the ability to outweigh determinism.
I also agree with the Hedonist point of view. If one must go through great amounts of pain to obtain his/her goals, then it is not worth it. For example, if a person’s goal is to become a famous singer but he/she is required to change his/her looks, personality, friends, and complete lifestyle, then it is not worth it. The pros and cons of the situation must be analyzed in order to determine whether it is worth the time and effort or not.
Additionally, I agree with the Buddhist philosophy. If someone is trying to achieve a goal, he/she must make good choices. If he/she fails to do so, karma will affect them negatively. If someone is trying to be a politician but he/she is mean and refuses to compromise, then the saying “what goes around comes around” goes into effect.
So, when I hear the saying “if it is meant to be, it will be” I believe in a combination of all of these. You can’t win if you just sit there and wait for fate to make it happen. You also can’t win, though, if you are in the wrong circumstances. Then, you must also weigh the options to decide whether it is really of high value or not. Finally, if you want to achieve a goal, you must do good deeds to ensure you will receive something good in return.
The only philosophy this would function infallibly under is stoicism. It collapses under hedonism because unless fate is evil, we are not destined for pain. Pain should not be meant to happen. Yet, it does almost daily. Buddhism only allows the statement to function under the premise that by meaning a first action to happen on your own, you mean a second happening to occur, since karma renders them inseparable. Existentialism cannot mesh with this statement at all because the only person who can will anything to be meant to happen is oneself. The first time what one means to happen does not happen, the statement fails except for some subconscious self contradiction. Existentialism is better served by the statement, "life is what you make it".
ReplyDeleteAccording to this statement, there are many different viewpoints. Stoics would strongly agree with this quote. They believe that "meaningful coincidence" do occur. Existentialists, on the other hand, would completely disagree with this idea. They believe that existence precedes essence. So therefore we create our own journey and not just having it all planned for us. Hedonists, along with Stoics, would agree with this statement. They basically relate to natural pleasure. They feel as though if they follow their desires without guilt, then everything will work out. Buddhists would not agree with this idea. They realize that everyone suffers, but there is also enlightenment. So there's a balance between the two. If you behave well, then good things will come your way, but if you act badly, karma will get the best of you.They also believe that disciplined, structured living is necessary. Now, having all these facts, I strongly agree with this quote. I believe that everything happens for a reason. I think that all major events in life are already planned out for us, but we just chose our own way on how to get there.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot behind that because when you really think about it, nothing can happen if you don't put forth some effort towards it. So, if you really think about it there is a lot of different views on that. I personally think that yes, it is meant to be but only if you work to achieve what is there in the end. Buddhist would probably not so much agree with this, because they revolve around more of a karma coincidence. They would say that if you do something good you will have something good in return or vis versa for bad. Existentialists would not agree with this either because they believe existence precedes an essence. Meaning that our destany is not chosen for us but that we chose it. Stoics and Hedonists would more than likely agree with this because they like to believe that pleasure is a main part in ones life. They like to believe that if you go with what you most desire that in the end everything is going to be okay. But in my view no you have to work to get something. Sure you might have a little help from the spirts or it might be your "destiny" but you won't actually HAVE that until you work for it.
ReplyDeleteSo like if you hit a golf ball into the air, and if you know all about the wind speed and what club you used, and how many dimples were in the ball, and what kind of core it had - you could scientifically predict the exact action of the ball. So if we knew enough about us, like our backgrounds and genetics and stuff, do you think we could predict everything about us - right down to our personal choices?
ReplyDeleteIf we could actually do that, then our our choices still free will, or are they actually determined by other factors that we have not control of?
Just wondering. :)
I agree for the most part. I think that when something happens it happens just out of the blue. I don't think it happens by the decisions that we've made. Yet again, sometimes decisions do have something to do with it, but most of the time it just happens. The Stoics believe that it's fate and meaningful coincidence. Everything happens because it's planned. We obviously don't know that it's going to happen but it's planned. So what's meant to be will be, we just don't know it right then and there. An Existentialist would most likely disagree. They believe that we're simply here and we create our own purpose. A Hedonist believes that we should follow our natural desires without guilt. They would most likely agree with the statement. If it's meant to be it will be says that you don't know right away what's going to happen, and if you follow your natural desires without guilt, your also not going to know what's going to happen if you do. A Buddist says that everybody suffers. Yea what's meant to be will be and suffering may include in that, but our life isn't based on suffering and being planned. If it's meant to be it will be, may cause some suffering but we don't know that.
ReplyDeleteI meant "are our choices", not "our our choices" geez I need to go back to 4th grade again and review my grammer....
ReplyDeleteI think that our choices decide our fate. In my opinion if everything was predetermined then we wouldn't have to make our own decisions. But we do make our own decisions and we all have to take responsibility for them. But from a stoic standpoint I do believe in meaningful coincidences but I don't think they are necessarily caused by some swing of fate.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this quote to an extent.For example, when natural disasters like hurricanes, tornados, and earthquakes occur, people don't choose to be there when it happens they just were. But afterwards I believe its their choice on how they react to the resulting situtation.
ReplyDeleteA stoic would agree with what I first said because they believe everything was predestined and if people are suppoed to be where a natural disaster occured that was their fate. An Existanalist would argue there was no fate, just the disaster and your choice to be in that place at that time. A Hedonism believer might agree with what I said only if it will bring them pleasure in the future but hardly any pain in the present. A Buddist will agree arguing karma whether good or bad will effect how the outcome will be for someone whe goes through a disaster.
With my stoic tendencies, I must agree with this quote. I think many theists would also support this belief because they favor the ideas of an all-mighty God and a predetermined path. Of course, denying our human power of free will is difficult. The decisions we make certainly influence our lives, but these choices are made for a reason. They all lead to what is meant to be, what should be.
ReplyDeleteFrom the readings in the book and the discussions in the classroom, I tend to believe stoics strongly agree with this quote. It fits perfectly with the idea of living in a predetermined universe where God oversees everything. In my opinion, this serves as the definition of fate. On the other hand, atheistic existentialists would fail to accept this idea. Since they create their own purposes, reject God, and make all choices on their own accord, they can’t understand “meant to be.” Therefore, nothing “will be” unless one makes it happen. Whereas Hedonism is concerned, pleasure in life is meant to be. In the mind of Epicurus, we look forward to enduring and static pleasures. These pleasures, coupled with natural desires, always make us choose what will produce the best results in the long run, what is meant to be in our minds. Finally, Buddhism suggests routines, which ultimately decrease suffering, are meant to be. With their belief of Karma, Buddhists think the actions performed by an individual cause either pain or joy to that same person. Even though I don’t necessarily agree with this philosophy, they believe actions and their consequences are meant to be.
I don't believe we would ever be able to tell how one would react to a situation due to their DNA. Then would it really be free will?? If a scientist could figure out how one would react to a probelm, then it wouldn't be too complicated to change the decision of a person, right? Creeeeepy!
ReplyDeleteI think I both agree and disagree with this quote because I believe it is possible for something to happen that is supposed to for a certain unexplanable purpose yet the idea seems far fetched considering we make all of our own choices in life. I do believe that certain things happen for a reason but in the end we made the choices that allowed that thing to happen and to have that certain outcome.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this quote. Many events happen in our life by chance and by consequences. This happens to everybody, however, so is it really by chance? I believe "chances" are meant to be. What creates this chance is not necessary God, but it could be our mind or simply the journey of life. I think by choosing our values and our paths of life with ultimately decide if it's meant to be it's meant to be.
ReplyDeleteWell I think that to an extent we can predict our future. Such as if we have taken a certain route how for around a week than more than likely we will take that route for many years to come. But then again there is the fact that a lot of our choices come as free will. Such as if you were to choose between two restaurants that you have never been to, and they serve the same thing then it is by free will of which you will choose.
ReplyDeleteI would say yes and no. Say your perents make you go to this certian college to be a specific thing and they are trying to transform you to be this person. So scence they are making you do this and its not your choice then is there really and free will? It also has Determinism tho, because you are going to this school and taking all these specific classes to make yourself who you will be and what you will be doing in the future. But lets say that the kid disagrees with his parents and choses something totally different, then what was ment to be is not what has been! Therefor I believe you have to have some free will and some determinism.
ReplyDeletePersonaly I agree with this quote, I believe in fate and that sometimes things just happen and we have no control, but I also believe that God has a purpose for all of us. So in a way I take both side of the fence.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this quote because I believe in fate and that everything happens for a reason. I believe that God has a plan for our lives and helps us the take the steps to reach that plan. Stoics would agree because they to believe in fate and meaningful coincidence. Existentialists wouldn't agree because they believe existence precedes essence. Hedonists would agree because they believe in natural pleasure and that everything will work out. Buddhists don't agree because they believe everyone suffers and karma will get you if your naughty.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with this quote because either if you choose it or it just happens, the turnout of the situation is meant to be. You can choose the relationship you are in, and that is why when people break up they say they will get back together if it is meant to be, but in reality you choose if you want it "to be" or not. Also if one was to get into a car accident, meaning the driving did NOT choose to hit the other car and it was not on purpose, that person was meant to die. It was his or her time so fate kind of intertwines with this statement. But either way, I agree with the statement.
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ReplyDeleteThink of yourself as a puddle. You, think wow this place (a hole of some sort) is just fantastic and you think that it was made just for you to live in so you decide to stay in your hole. You keep living your normal puddle life and begin to dry up. You just think its part of your puddle life cycle and there is nothing you can do about it so you just stay in your hole until finally you dry up completely. Hmmmm... Isn't the hole still there? Maybe the hole was created FOR you. Maybe it was just by mere coincidence that you ended up in this hole. Maybe you should have chosen to leave your made-up boundaries of your "divine" hole. So maybe there is no "meant to be" and maybe all that bologna is just something we come up with to explain coincidences and give our lives a greater meaning than what it really is because we humans are extremely insecure.
ReplyDeleteJust thought id throw that out there.
Yes I think it is true. Somethings are not in your power like a car accident or death but it was meant to be and if it wasnt meant to be then it would not have happened. Like a car accident. If you would have left a few minutes earlier or later then you actually did or even stopped on the way, went faster ;or slower, these are all elements that went in to the cause of the accident. That day it was meant for you to leave when you left, not stop, and go as fast as you did. Which means the car accident was meant to be by what elements were put into your day. What is meant to be will be. Its a very true statement I would say!
ReplyDeleteElliot's comment could be a paraphrase of classic Nietzsche - as that is almost exactly his thinking on this topic.
ReplyDeleteIf its meant to be why would anyone do anything it would be easy to live if everything in life was predetermined but then there would be no decisions. If someone was killed no body would care or be upset at the person who killed the other. It would simply be oh well he was supposed to do that and he was supposed to die. Making life easy but pointless no one would attempt new things or try anything different.
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